The Franchise Advantage: Why Choosing a Franchise Model Can Jumpstart Your Entrepreneurial Journey with Irving Chung

Curious about the franchise model? In this episode, Irving Chung reveals why choosing a franchise can be a game-changer for your entrepreneurial journey and how it can fast-track your path to success.

What’s Covered in This Episode:

• The advantages of starting a business through the franchise model.
• Irving’s insights on how franchises offer built-in systems and support for new entrepreneurs.
• Key factors to consider when evaluating franchise opportunities.
• How franchising can minimize risk and maximize your growth potential.
• Real-world success stories from franchise owners who scaled quickly.

Irving Chung is the founder and CEO of FranGuidance, a resource for exploring and investing in franchise businesses worldwide.  

After 25 years in corporate Irving experienced burnout and frustration as he got into senior management. As a result, he transitioned into entrepreneurship by becoming a franchise owner. 

Irving is now a multi-business owner focused on wealth generation.  He is paying it forward by assisting others to take control of their financial future by opening their own business and /or investing in a franchise so they too can realize unlimited earning potential and freedom over their lives.

🤝Book a call with Irving Chung
📚 https://franguidance.com/

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Transcript

Irving: [00:00:00] The first two decades of franchising was nothing but fast food because people are like, Oh franchising is about fast food.

So let's do chicken. Let's do sandwiches. There's almost every type of food franchise, but it expanded to almost every other category. Now , what's beautiful about franchising in the modern term is that I have nearly a thousand businesses in my portfolio across every category from fitness to health care to senior care, pet care, children's enrichment, education, home improvement, property like improvement, like roofing, painting custom closets.

everything you can think of 

it's time to reinvent.

Priscilla: Welcome to lessons of entrepreneurship, the journey of reinvention. I have an exciting guest for you [00:01:00] today. Irving Chung. Founder and CEO of Fran Guidance. Irving, I know that this topic, all entrepreneurs want to know about this, about franchises. Please introduce yourself and tell us about your mission.

Irving: Absolutely. I started in this seven years ago. And what led me there was just frustration with my corporate career. Like most people went to college, got a job, climbed the ladder and in fact I loved my corporate career. I was in corporate marketing. I produced. Big commercials with celebrities and had multi million dollar productions traveled the world.

But like I say, to most people, corporate's great until it's not. I just got burned out, tired of the long hours, tired of measly raises. After about 25 years, I thought I'd be farther ahead, both financially career wise. It really wasn't delivering that dream that we all have about being in a corporate.

Company. I was tired. I was burned [00:02:00] out. I wasn't making it financially. And I'm like, there has to be a better way. And so I've always wanted to own a business. And I said, if I owned a business and put 50 hours of work into my own business, I'd probably be a lot more wealthy. But I didn't know what business to start.

So I investigated franchising. A friend of mine told me about franchising is like, Hey, if you want to own your own business, you should consider a franchise. And I'm like, Oh, okay. I started exploring franchising. What I discovered was amazing. Franchising is an ideal business model for anyone who wants to own their business, but has absolutely no experience whatsoever in business ownership.

And even more you can get into any business you want without having any experience in that particular vertical. For example, I ended up choosing and buying seven years ago in indoor cycling studio. And I chose indoor cycling because I have a passion for fitness, helping other people make positive change.

I love [00:03:00] cycling. It's my favorite sport. It's also because it's a recurring revenue stream. It's membership based. That means that once I built up my membership, it becomes a recurring monthly revenue. Very predictable, and it's also designed to be what's called semi absentee, which means that it's primarily a manager run business.

There's no part of running this business that literally involves me being there to operate it. have instructors that teach the class. They're younger than me and more fit than I am. I have front desk staff. They're mostly high school, college kids. They make a lot less than I would make. There's really not a role for me.

And I have a manager who pretty much runs the operation, make sure the studio is clean, make sure employees show up, make sure that, everything is operating smoothly. those are the three reasons I chose it and it's been phenomenal. Six months after I launched my own marketing consulting business, which was really my end goal or my starting goal.

I wanted to own a franchise to generate recurring revenue that was [00:04:00] predictable. I had the freedom to do consulting work, which is less predictable, but something that's in my strength and skillset. And so I launched a marketing consulting business shortly after I expanded it to include franchise consulting, because a lot of people I was consulting with were entrepreneurs, small business owners, and people looking to grow and expand their business.

It was a natural fit marketing consulting, franchise consulting. So I view my mission as paying it forward, helping other people learn about franchising, which was brand new to me. It was life changing for me. And I just enjoy. Educating people to help them understand what opportunities they can pursue to really change their professional career track towards business ownership.

Priscilla: Typically we think franchise and we think fast food. We're walking around looking at McDonald's and looking at KFC and thinking, wow who's opening up the new KFC down the street They're all these assumptions.

So since I have you here, Irving, and you can really speak to, what is true? What is not true? What should [00:05:00] a person know if they're thinking about this? Let's start with how does the franchise work?

Irving: Funny that you mentioned McDonald's because 99 percent of people I talked to. First thing think of when they hear the word franchise is McDonald's. And then, yeah, like you said, other fast food, Subway, 7 Eleven, Chick fil A. And so there are a couple of misperceptions 

let me start about how franchising operates and works. We can even use McDonald's as an example. They are the grandfather of franchising. They pretty much started franchising. And what it was, they came up with a fantastic business model. A way to make money.

It was good hamburgers, not great hamburgers, but they were designed to be good hamburgers that were done very efficiently and generated lots of revenue with the multiple products that they'd offered. Milkshakes, french fries, hamburgers generally franchising is based on a successful business model that has proven itself.

And then they put together the operational structure. [00:06:00] to allow someone to replicate what they've created with instruction and operating procedures in their market. So basically it's a proven model that you would learn to operate and function. And in theory, if you operate it the way it's taught, you should replicate at the very least the revenue that was generated by the original model. every franchise started with a successful first store. lot of times someone will have launched a business and maybe even grew it to five or 10 stores and said, Hey, if I share using McDonald's terminology, the secret sauce, and I share with you the secrets to how to launch and operate this business, what you're getting is a shortcut to success.

Because in starting any business from scratch, what you're really doing is you're just taking a hypothesis of what you think will be a good business and you execute it on that hypothesis and you throw ideas [00:07:00] against a wall until they stick. You're like, Hey, let me charge for this. Let me try this. Let me service that.

Let me try this. hopefully over time you start to see more things stick than less. And that leads to revenue generation. When you buy a franchise, you're gonna learn years of experience and learning of what to do and what not to do to generate revenue quickly and efficiently. Basically, you're getting a cheat sheet on how to make money, that's the bottom line of why franchises were created and the theory behind it.

It's a proven model, which is fantastic.

Priscilla: Everything you've said, people even though they only think of McDonald's in this sense, they still have that sense that, wow, this is a proven thing. It works. It's packaged for you already to get success. Our audience, which is early entrepreneurs, a lot of times you are in that phase where you have an idea, you try it out, you're failing fast.

You're failing fast. You're failing fast.

Irving: that's right.

Priscilla: but it's not for everyone. And this [00:08:00] is an alternative. Let me ask you this because you chose a franchise that was, sport related, and a lot of people have no idea that even such franchises exist. do you find different kinds of franchises to learn more about?

Irving: A real key role that I play. I'm a franchise consultant. That's what I do. And what does that mean? I educate people about the franchise model. Generally speaking, like I just described a little bit, and I go much deeper, I talk about How long is the license term? How much does it cost?

What kind of support do I get? What kind of training do I get? What's the growth curve? What's the launch phase? What are steps necessary to get even started, right? We go through all the basics. What do I do when I want to sell it? What if it doesn't do well, all of these questions about franchising in general, I spent a lot of time with my clients.

Educating them about franchising so that they have an understanding of it. For example, one of the key things people have a misunderstanding about in franchising is royalties. Royalties are a [00:09:00] percentage of your gross that the franchisor charges you. to operate that business, right? And that's how they make money.

Now, most people are like, Oh my gosh, you can never make money if they take all your profits with royalties. Royalties are only as low as three to maybe as high at 12%, but the average is about 5%. And what that pays for, of course, is the franchisor's profit, but it also goes towards paying for resources at the corporate office that come back to you as support services.

Every franchise operation has a corporate office that's staffed by a VP of marketing, VP of sales, VP of operations, and all these people are specialists within their service requirement . And they were a resource to franchisees a, from the very beginning.

They train you, they coach you. They're always present. In a franchise, you're never alone. You have an entire corporate office whose job is every day to wake up and make you successful. That is all they do. And so that's another [00:10:00]benefit. But most people have this negative perception of royalties.

It's only 5 percent and if you think about most businesses, they may have a profit margin of 15 to 30 percent even if you're not in a franchise. Franchise delivers the same kind of profit margins, sometimes even higher. You're still getting. Third, 15 to 40%, 30%. And that's even with the 5 percent royalty coming off, it's considered like another cost of doing business.

Like you wouldn't complain about payroll or maybe it would, but it's expected you have to pay employees. You have to pay insurance. You have to pay taxes. You have to pay a lease. You have to pay for vehicles. You have to pay for gas or what you call petrol. I mean, you got to pay for all that stuff.

That's the cost of doing business. 5 percent off the top also pays for the franchise or support that you're getting and you're getting even call centers, you're getting marketing strategy, you're getting marketing materials. You're getting all that information and support, as [00:11:00] part of that.

That's part of it. Now the other part of what I do is a franchise consultant is I educate people about the vast variety of franchises available. Since 1963, which is a long time ago, that's when McDonald's was born. The first probably two decades of franchising was nothing but fast food because people are like, Oh franchising is about fast food.

So let's do chicken. Let's do sandwiches. Let's do, everything in the world and still proliferating. There's almost every type of food franchise, but it expanded to almost every other category. Now when I consult with people, what's beautiful about franchising in the modern term is that I have nearly a thousand businesses in my portfolio across every category from fitness to health care to senior care, pet care, children's enrichment, education, home improvement, property like improvement, like roofing, painting custom closets.

mean everything you [00:12:00] can think of we can do even painting. There's a painting business that does not just like house painting, but art painting, like experiential natural soap business. So if you want to buy natural organic plant based soaps, we have that. It's just really exciting for people to learn understand, wow that's pretty cool.

I didn't realize that even existed. And that's the other liberating part. In my case, I spent 25 years in marketing. If I wanted to get into technology or finance, guess what? Any corporate recruiter that looked at my resume would be you don't qualify. Why are you wasting my time? After 25 years in one industry, which is the majority of in the professional world, you get pigeonholed into only one thing.

There's no way for me to , I can't really start a new career. I have 25 years experience. What am I going to do? I can't get into finance. I can't get into technology. They're not going to hire someone that's entry level. At least with the money I want to make, in franchising, you can actually do [00:13:00] anything you want.

As a 40 year old, 50 year old who wants to reinvent themselves, basically in franchising, all you have to ask yourself is what do I want to do when I grow up? Do I want to get into healthcare? Do I want to get into fitness? Even though I feel I'm relatively fit for my age, I'm not fit enough to really be an instructor.

My instructors are 20, 30 years old, super bubbly, super energetic. And people don't want to pay to see me on that bike, right? Owning a fitness studio doesn't mean I have to work in it. It means I own it and operate it. When you buy a business, you're not buying a job.

That's a huge shift for people. Because when you take a job, your productivity results in, hey, your carrot, you get a paycheck. You don't do this. You don't get your carrot, ? For me, I don't need to teach a class to make money for my studio. My instructors teach to class. I don't need to open the front doors to let my members in.

My responsibility is to [00:14:00] hire the right people, conduct marketing to generate leads motivate my employees, train them to do their jobs , and reward them for it with a paycheck, of course. But at the end of the day, really owning a business means your employees are making the money for you.

So those are all very liberating components Why go from corporate to business ownership, and how do I do that with no experience? Because the main Training that I got when I bought my franchise was how to be an owner It wasn't to be a bike instructor.

It wasn't be a front desk person to greet and clean bikes It was, what are your key responsibilities as an owner, which is staffing with the right people, right? Paying the right amount based on your business model, advertising to generate demand and capture customers, converting those customers to members and rinse and repeat every single month. And that's what I do. It takes me five to six hours a week and I make about [00:15:00] 150, a year in profit. There's no way to make that kind of money in corporate for that few hours. They're like, Oh, five hours. Hey, you make 50 bucks.

Priscilla: I definitely see why. This model really works. If you've reached a certain level in your career, for you to take yourself back to entry level in order to do something else. And try to figure things out from the bottom because things have changed and the way things are done are constantly changing.

So to take yourself back to entry level and start trying to figure things out, especially now in this high tech world where you find, the young entrepreneur millionaires 18 year olds, 19 year olds, people who are savvy about technology and how to use technology, wow, this is really interesting.

Naturally, I see what is good about the franchise but looking at the pros and the cons of owning a franchise, maybe you can speak to that so that, as you're thinking through is this the right option for you?

What also should you think about in terms of the downside?

Irving: There are a couple of things. One is, I think the most important, again, part of my role. is helping people [00:16:00] think through the options and helping decipher what they're good at, what they enjoy to pick the right business. There's three characteristics that I always challenge people to think about in picking the right business.

In addition to people saying, Oh, I don't want to do McDonald's, right? That's 99 percent of people come in thinking fast food. first thing I say when do you know what business you want? want a business can make me millions of dollars. That's the first thing they say.

I just want the business and make me the most money. And I usually stop it right there. I'm like, that's not enough. I said, money is why we're all in it. You don't have to tell me that's a fact is that, I'm here to make money, right? Either replace my salary, exceed my salary.

That is the number one factor economics. And economics are two things. One is it a business you can afford to buy? And is it a business that can make you the money you want to make?

Not every franchise can make the same amount of money. The model , they're all different. So it's a combination of both. Is it a business I can afford and can it make me money that I want to make? , for example, a McDonald's I think is selling for , [00:17:00] 4.

5 million I think to buy a McDonald's now, I you pretty much got to be a millionaire already to buy one. Really it's about the rich perpetuating their wealth. But I have businesses that are as cheap as 75, 000, there's a full range, there's a broad range of investment, key is finding out what can you afford. Because running out of money is the fastest way to go out of business. Okay? Number one is economics. Number two is conviction. You gotta believe in what you do. Period. For example, I'm not a smoker. So no offense to anyone who loves smoking, but my father was a chain smoker.

I saw him get sick from it. I just learned I never liked it. Now, someone told me I can make a million dollars a month selling cigarettes and vape. I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it with a straight face. I couldn't do it without guilt. I couldn't do it without compromising my own integrity. Because, someone would come in the store and say, Hey, buy some menthols.

Hey, try this cherry flavored vape. This is fantastic. Hey, buy some for your kids. Here, buy more. I couldn't do that. Okay? Now, can I help somebody walk [00:18:00] in my fitness studio and say, Hey, gotta lose 100 pounds, otherwise I'm gonna die. I'm like, of course. Let's go. And this is how indoor cycling can help you do that.

I believe in it. I can talk about it from the heart and believe in it. I don't have to compromise myself. So conviction is number two. Number three is passion. At the end of the day, it's going to be hard work. So as much as franchising sounds great, it's a lot of work. I'm not going to lie to anybody and say, Oh, it's free money.

\ trucks are going to come rolling up in your door with money and all you gotta do is count it. Before those trucks show up at your front door with the money, you got to put in lots of work and without passion, you're not going to have the perseverance to put up with the challenges to be successful because you're going to give up before that.

So if it's just a money and the money doesn't come, guess what? You're going to quit. Quitting isn't quitting on your boss. It's quitting on yourself, which leads me to the next factor. To be successful in a small business, it's not for [00:19:00] everybody. It's for people who are self motivated and driven.

And what that means is if you have a hard time waking up and getting to your job without a boss yelling at you and telling you, you need to be here and you're late and the next time you're late, you're going to be fired. Those kinds of people shouldn't own a business because if you're not going to wake up to show up, guess what?

You're just disappointing yourself. You need to show up every day and you need to show up. early on time, awake and ready to go, ready to deal with anything. Okay. You have to have a mindset of abundance and optimism because if you're a pessimist and you think the world's going to end, the minute you run into a problem, you're going to shut down.

You can't let barriers and challenges stop you because in running your own business, there's problems every day. There was a blackout like a couple of weeks ago. , all the power went out, the world's ending, you got to deal with those kinds of things.

There's a ceiling leak. There was this, an instructor got sick. I mean, you're always [00:20:00] dealing with something and you've got to find ways to overcome that, right? There's solutions, there's methodologies, but it's about you being available and being ready to deal with that. Okay. The franchisors that help build a team around you.

In the end of the day, it's your business, and you gotta show up.

Priscilla: Irving, talk me through how you started out franchisee, because I think people have been thinking. Am I looking for the location? Are they telling me what am I doing? 

Irving: I was clueless. I I have no idea about business ownership. I had never signed a commercial lease. When you franchise, They will hand hold you and guide you through the entire process. They will do demographic analysis to determine is your market viable. They will help you hire real estate broker to find a location that meets the requirements of that business.

They'll assess it. They'll do, architecture drawings to make sure that it's designed properly. They will help you hire a general contractor and evaluate bids to make sure you don't get robbed by [00:21:00] someone who's overcharging or someone who's missed things on the estimate. Cause I didn't know what to look for.

So they will review all that for me. Even they'll help me negotiate the lease. They'll say, Hey, this is an acceptable amount to pay because it has to fit within the business model. They're like, Oh, that's way overpriced. This is the right amount. These are the concessions you should try to negotiate.

They literally help you through every single stage of the process. It is almost like paint by numbers, might say, Oh my gosh, I got to paint the Mona Lisa. Priscilla, here's some paint, here's a brush, paint the Mona Lisa.

And you're like, what? I'm not an artist, but in a small business. With a franchise, you can say, okay, it's like paint by numbers in box one paint in box two, do green box three, do blue. At the end of the day, you step back. You're like, man, I built the studio. This is amazing.

But they would help you every step of the way. that's not just in the beginning. That's all the way through to the end. When you sell it, don't even help you sell the business that's the beauty of the franchise. They're there to coach you through every life [00:22:00] phase. Every challenge, every requirement, 

Priscilla: you spoke about a license. 

Irving: . So when you buy a franchise, you're buying the rights. To own that business and you pay a franchise fee. Franchise fee or a one time fee, and it is almost like a licensing fee is potentially how you can describe it, but it's called the franchise fee and what it buys you is the right to own that business for 10 years.

The average term is 10 years. Some are seven, some are five, some are 20. The average is about 10 years and during that 10 years, your obligation is to run and operate that business. That's it. You have the right to sell that business at any time in those 10 years. It's yours. Most franchises are exclusive to you.

Your territory, your geography, like I'm in Dallas, Texas, and my area that I run my studio, only I can own that area within that business model. They make sure that there's no competition from within your franchise.

Priscilla: Okay.

Irving: which means that also because there's scarcity, because there's.[00:23:00]

exclusivity. Once every part of Dallas is sold, the only way to buy it is to buy it from an owner. Scarcity improves value. If someone wants to buy the business that I own they love it guess what? They got to buy it from me. Cause I'm the only one who can own it. That's the beauty of selling a business as well as once you've grown it and you go to sell it because of the exclusive to me, They have to come to me to buy it.

Usually selling a franchise is not that hard to do if it's doing well.

Priscilla: All new information to me everybody knows beyond McDonald's because of you Irving today.

Irving: Oh, good. Yay.

Priscilla: thank you so much for that. Now I know someone who may be listening, maybe thinking about the other side of this, where they're saying, if I build a business and in my mind, I thought this also could be a franchise.

Irving: Yeah, which is fantastic, right? The reason why a company may want to franchise is that they don't have the financial means and resources to grow. I'm in the United States across the entire [00:24:00] country, and yeah, I can maybe start three or four of them and run them efficiently, and it can make me a good amount of money.

But imagine if I got 5 percent of 500 other people operating their own business, yeah. around the whole country. That's a lot more revenue. Now, I can still run my four or five. But adding on top of that royalties from, 500 other people who are now running the business, ideally successfully, which is why I create the operation to do that.

What does it take to start and create your own franchise? In the U S it's a federally regulated industry. There's a legal document you need to create called the franchise disclosure document. It's almost like a business prospectus. It's about 200 pages long. It gets into the entire history.

Every fee, every cost of operations listed, historical earnings are listed, so any lawsuits have to be reported, all the number of franchisees and who they are need to be reported, anyone who failed needs to be reported. Basically, that's [00:25:00] also great to talk about because that is partly the disclosure process that's required by law that they need to educate you about the history of this company.

And to buy a business, you have to get that disclosure. You have to get that as part of the evaluation process. , there's no such thing as a hidden fee in franchising. Because it all has to be documented. The only reason why it's hidden is because you didn't bother to read about it. Right?

You get proven revenue because you have to report revenue. They have all the fees listed. What's it cost? What's it require? What are your responsibilities? They even have a list of failed franchisees. If you open up the FDD and it has more failures than successes, guess what? You should run the other way, right?

, it reduces the risk of buying a bad business. Or a business that may be, too expensive for you or something that requires something you don't wanna do. It's all disclosed. As a franchise or that's, so the two terms [00:26:00] are franchisee. That's someone who buys a franchise and operates it, right?

That's a franchisee, A franchisor is the parent company , that facilitates and helps franchisees to operate. The responsibility for a franchisor is to , publish this document. And they have to revise it every year. They have to update it with current information. That's required by law in the US.

Then they need to create an infrastructure. If you think about what I described, the benefits are what you need to deliver on, which means you need a staff of experts who are going to train and assist people who have no clue about franchise ownership, business ownership in that category. And your job is to have that team make them experts.

You need to create that. That's what I'm paying for. And it costs money, right? It takes time and investment to create a step. Now, if you've owned a business and have maybe three of them before you go to franchise, of course, you're going to have very smart employees who've been with you.

Most likely those people become executives within your [00:27:00] franchise. And you have, someone who's been operating for a long time, you have a CFO, you may have some marketing people, but you repurpose those people to become broader resources. Also in terms of operating systems, billing systems, booking systems, scheduling systems, all that is what you're buying.

Okay. Cause , they tend to be small business advantages. For example, if I'm competing against a mom and pop cleaner and that's a lady with a Right. Or a plumber who has a wrench in the truck. What you end up is someone saying, Oh yeah, I'll be there at eight o'clock tomorrow morning. And then they don't show up they call you two hours later saying, Oh, I'm sorry.

I got caught up on a job. I couldn't make it to your house. And while I was sitting here waiting, where are you in a franchise business? The way it works is much more professional. You'll book an appointment and it's a next Thursday, eight o'clock. And you'll get an appointment notice saying, Hey Priscilla, you're booked for eight o'clock Thursday morning.

30 minutes earlier. Hey Priscilla, Joe's on his way. He'll be there in 30 minutes. You can track his vehicle and look, he's [00:28:00] approaching your house now, you're going to have information, communication, confirmation, which is what we like as consumers. We don't like being kept in the dark. We don't like surprises.

Hey, we quoted you a hundred dollars. Guess what? Here's a bill for a hundred dollars. It's not going to be, Oh yeah, I told you it's a hundred, but really it's 150. You can't operate a business. unprofessionally, which a lot of mom and pops do, in a franchise business, same thing with hamburger automation.

You want to have that same hamburger that I had in Sydney than I did in, Dallas, Texas. And the only way to do that is if you run it and operate it with systems. And methodologies that are consistent, right? So you got to create operating systems to deliver those services with consistency.

Cause that's what you're buying. I have to admit that I do Starbucks coffee. It's reliable. And so when I'm internationally flying in business, I'll look for Starbucks, yeah, I like trying local foods and stuff, but usually my morning [00:29:00]coffee, I don't want to mess with that.

That's what I drink to wake up. That's what I enjoy. That's my routine. And I love it that I can get Starbucks almost anywhere at almost any international airport. That's what you're buying. Now, if I bought Starbucks and it tasted difference that's not the point of a franchise.

The point of a franchise is delivering consistency of product and quality and service so that I know what I'm getting every time I go into one, because ideally I love it. That's the whole idea.

Priscilla: Thank you so much, Irving, for unpacking that for us. Now, to someone who's thinking, Irving, I'm not financially ready to go into a franchise, but maybe I would like to read about it 

Irving: there are a couple of my favorites. , there's one called the E Myth. The E Myth is about business ownership. What's it take to be successful? I always recommend my clients read that book before they start, their own business. It helps them understand best practices, what the right mindset is and things like that.

Priscilla: To the audiences [00:30:00] listening, if you'd like to connect with Irving and learn more about franchises, how to become a franchise owner, what to consider, what to research, or you need someone who's an expert to talk you through this, I'm going to link at the bottom so that you can book a call with Irving Chung.

Irving, thank you so much. This has been an awesome conversation and I think it's going to get people thinking differently about business ownership. Thank you.

Irving: If you want to learn specifically about franchising definitely go to my website frameguidance. com and in the learning section, there's information and I post, monthly blogs there

Priscilla: Wonderful. Please do use that resource and it's important to know what's out there so you can make the best decision on how to go forward as an entrepreneur. Thank you Irving.

Irving: Thank you